In a fashion system that relies on constant churn, longevity can be hard to find. For over a decade, Robert Geller — half of cult favorite early-2000s label Cloak and head of his own, eponymous line of menswear — has been doing yeoman’s work, building out a rich, defined aesthetic slowly and steadily. During New York Fashion Week, we spoke with Robert about the magic of Polaroids, the importance of having a good team, and why it’s important to support weirdness. This interview has been condensed and edited for clarity.
I want to start by talking about your relationship with color. You have an instinct for hues that I feel like is different than most designers’. Where does that come from?
It started when I was in college, when you start thinking about if you were to start something beyond, what would be the things that you feel strongest about? It was always color in my mind. When it got more concrete, it was looking at the market and seeing what is out there — brands like Uniqlo or even The Gap that just had a million colors. I felt like there was more possibility than what they were offering.
More than just the strict primaries.
Yeah. It’s sort of like a formula. They go to the Première Vision fabric shows and there’s the forecast, or they have some forecasting company telling them what the colors are. Then they do the primary colors. Those colors never interested me. I always liked the colors that you don’t really have a name for. You cannot describe them very well. You have to come up with something.
Your background is photography, right?
Yeah.
I always got a sepia tone sense from your work. Like looking at old Polaroids.
Polaroids. That is exactly it. One of my ex-assistants, Peter Nguyen, who is a super smart guy, he came up with this thing — he said, “If you consider Dries van Noten to be an oil painting, and Ann Demeulemeester a black and white photo, and Martin Margiela a photocopy of a black and white photo, then Robert Geller is a Polaroid.” I think that’s really right on. Polaroid doesn’t represent reality. It represents a dream. That’s, in a way, what I try to do with the collection. There’s a sense of romance in there. The colors that fade into uncontrollable hues. It has a sense of history, a sense of memory. I think that’s a really nice way of putting it.
How does this play out in your most recent collection?
From the beginning I wanted this collection to be focused on color. It’s always been an aspect, but for this one, I really wanted it to play a starring role. At some point pretty early in the process of designing this collection, I remembered a childhood story. It’s a story by the same author as The Neverending Story, Michael Ende, called Momo. In English, it’s called The Grey Gentlemen. Essentially, it’s a group of grey men — they’re time bankers. They come to a town where everyone is quite happy with their lives, and they say, “Look at you guys, you’re wasting your time. You guys are being creative, you’re spending time with your families, you have leisure time. We’ll take that all away and save it for you. and you’ll be a much more productive society.”
So, they all go along with this, and they start turning into grey men as well. Then there’s Momo, who fights against it. She’s an orphan, a young girl, and she represents the color, and she fights against these grey men and brings the color back. I just thought that was a beautiful image. It was written in the ‘70s, kind of an anti-capitalist thing. There’s politics behind it, but just the image of these grey men, this girl fighting it with color, left an impression in my head when I was a kid.
You can see it throughout this collection. It starts off very dark, blacks, business-y, strong outerwear, and then it starts to open up. It goes first into these greys, and it gets a little softer, and then really towards the last bits it opens up into these more bohemian looks with much more vivid colors.
That’s a really interesting point of inspiration, and a timely one, as well. So much of the discussion around the industry these days is this internal conflict over designers feeling sapped of all their time, and energy, and creativity. Was this an intentional comment from you, or is it just happenstance?
No, but it is timely. I started working on this collection last June. That was before Raf left. Now everyone is talking about it. The reality is that there is a point to it: to remind myself that the reason I started doing this is for the beauty of creation. Trying to make things that will make people feel good about themselves, and also just make the world a little bit more beautiful. That’s an important part of it. The business part is the fuel that keeps the machine going. What’s the reason for the machine in the first place? Why should I keep going? That is the essence of why I do what I do.
Maybe they don’t need to be mutually exclusive.
They don’t. They can’t be. Business without some creativity won’t last, and creativity without the business part will never really get started.
It seems like you learned how to present really clear viewpoints with Cloak, but only figured out the business aspect with your own line. My understanding is that when you started your eponymous line, you had a really good financial backer. How did that connection come about and what is that relationship like?
That relationship has been essential to my success because I know that it is almost impossible to do it without somebody that has the resources to get you through the first… We tried with Cloak, but it was so extremely difficult.
A little while after I left Cloak I was doing a women’s line, Harald. That’s when I was approached by this Japanese production company — we’ve changed partners since then but that is how it started. They knew me because of Cloak. They liked what we’d done. The more we talked, the more it made sense with them. There’s not a day I regret having made that move. They take things off my plate that I am not good at. They take the financials off my plate. They take the production aspect off my plate. So, I can concentrate on the things that I am good at. I mean, I still run my business. I still have a staff, I still have an office. The main things that occupy you when you are running a fashion business that are not creative, they take care of. They’re good at it. That’s why it’s a good partnership.
The big news from the past week was that several major luxury brands are now finally trying to rearrange their businesses to have collections available for sale as they’re being shown. What are your general impressions of this move? What does it mean for a brand like yours?
I’m watching it with interest. That whole aspect of the business is not something that I am so into. I’m focused on creating collections. I won’t be a front runner in this kind of a thing. It’s not my personality. The idea, it does make sense. It makes sense to show the collection behind closed doors to the buyers and some press and then show it to the public right before the collection hits the stores, or as it’s hitting the stores. There’s definitely some sense in that, especially with all the fast fashion. There is so much copying going on.
That aspect makes sense. I don’t always like letting go of traditions because of lot of the romance that brought me to fashion is the old system. It’s changing — it’s changed. There’s no use in hanging onto it for too long.
It’s funny, I’ve been hearing people questioning whether a fashion show is the best way to present your clothes for a long time. There’s something about the fashion show that I love. I love the music. I love the show. I love the when the hair on your arms and legs stands up. It is such moment. I don’t want to let that go. Presentation doesn’t do it. Publishing doesn’t do it. There is nothing else that really replaces that moment.
Presentations, to me, are a little clinical.
There is no emotion. You know that there’s emotion when the set is cool, when the lights come on, the music just gets you. There are moments where it’s just, like… You get it. This is fashion, and this is what people are so attracted to. There’s an essence of cool that can be created if the right people are in place.
Let’s talk about music for a second, because I know it’s big part of what you do as a designer. What did you use in the most recent show?
We opened with Nitzer Ebb, which was a band that I saw when I was super young. I went to see Depeche Mode, Violator, so it was, like, ’92 or something like that. They opened up for Depeche Mode. They just blew my mind. They’re super industrial. I’ve been wanting to use one of their songs for a long time, I just had to choose the right kind of moment to do it. Then an obscure band named S.Y.P.H.
A lot of this was put together with Scott Mou. He is the one that does the music. He’s a DJ, but he’s also a musician. We’re really musical soul mates. We sit together, talk about the concept, come up with ideas for the show. A lot of it comes from ’78 to ’83-’84. We’ll throw on something a little bit later once in a while, but that whole post-punk thing is really big for us. We use Einstürzende Neubauten. We’ve used a lot of Chameleons in past, Echo and the Bunnymen. Just that kind of vibe. Goes with that style, goes with what I like.
That makes sense, given what you say about basing your work in memory. I grew up skateboarding and reading skate magazines, so, for me, it’s always skate style. I think we always return to youth in some way. On that note, you have a really defined aesthetic — I don’t have any problem picking out your pieces on people on the street. How do you balance hewing closely to your look while also pushing things forward, having some sort of season-to-season differentiation?
That’s pretty easy for me. It’s just gut feeling. I think I’ve developed a language for Robert Geller, but I keep addressing different subjects from season to season. That always starts with building a theme. The one about Momo, for instance. We’ve done student revolutions in the late ‘60s in Berlin. Movies. Something that gets a vibe going. Then it comes from that, but within that vibe. If I do something on the late ‘60s, the fashion isn’t totally based on late ‘60s fashion. There will be references, and different colors, and different attitudes, but when I reference a time, it’s not necessarily about how those people dressed. It’s, “What were they feeling? What was their music?” It is just getting a vibe and putting it into this collection.
Your brand is nine years old — almost in its 10th year?
Yeah. It will be 10 in 2017.
That’s quite an accomplishment. How do you feel about where you’ve taken the brand in the past decade? Have you hit all the marks you were hoping to?
It’s weird. I didn’t go into this with any expectations. I love where I am now. I love going to work in the morning, the way I’m set up with my partnership, the small team here that I love. I really enjoy the process. I’m afraid of growing too fast. I love the way that we are now. It’s very sustainable. I look at Dries van Noten. He’s pretty major. He has a handful of stores throughout the world. All very curated by him. That’s somebody that I really look up to. I feel like he’s done it on his own terms. That’s the ceiling that I see in the long term. Where I am now, I’m really happy. There are moments where I can’t believe how we’ve been here for so long. When we started Cloak, there’s nobody really left from that time. It’s crazy. Especially people that just do menswear. Nobody.
Speaking of dedicated retail, is that something that’s in the works for you?
It has been. It’s something that I look at from two sides. One side, I’m really eager to do it, because it will allow me to have a space where I can show, visually, what the whole world looks like, and have pieces that stores might not pick up, and all that. On the other hand, it’s a whole new business, opening a retail store. It’s a huge thing. Lots of new employees. Lots of management. I’m going at it very slowly and making sure that I have the right partners on board for it. Probably the first one will be in Tokyo through my partner over there, because they do retail. And then eventually coming here. Slowly, step-by-step.
Would you still show in New York City, if you didn’t live here?
That’s a good question. No.
Where would you show?
It depends on where I lived. If I lived in Europe, I would show in Paris. If I lived in Asia, I would show in Tokyo. But I like showing in New York. This is where I got started. I want to support that.
People think of New York fashion as very commercial — not as many ideas being expressed as in Paris, or even London. I don’t think that’s necessarily fair all the time.
That’s not totally fair, but it is valid. There is a lot of catalogue fashion being celebrated on the runway, being celebrated by the magazines. In a way, it is deserved. A designer like Siki Im doesn’t get nearly the attention that he deserves. It’s the system that’s still in place here, and people are okay with it. It’s a little bit old. It’s a little dusty. I think for New York — I’m just talking about menswear — to become relevant, to become exciting, I think the people who are in power need to support the designers that are doing something different.
Look at London. When Burberry came back, they kind of set the stage. Now all the young guys are flourishing.
Yeah. You see weird stuff.
Lots of weird stuff. Weird stuff gets supported and that’s why people look at it. We have a long way to go, but they’re trying. That thing about American fashion being conservative and dusty is totally valid.
Obviously your work as a fashion designer is a full time job — do you still have time to express yourself in other media? If not, is that something you miss?
My medium is raising kids. My life is full. I feel totally satisfied creatively with what I do. I never feel like I’m missing something. My wife is extremely creative. She has extremely good taste. She is a designer, too, she runs a showroom. It’s amazing what she comes up with, creatively, for the kids and for our family to do. We sit around and we draw a ton. We build things. We paint things. It’s like a little creative family that tries to make beautiful things together. That’s another outlet.
I feel like spending time with kids is probably one of the best things you can do for yourself creatively.
Absolutely.
I used to teach kindergarten and I feel like that’s the most creative I’ve ever been.
That’s such a nice thing. I love the idea of teaching as well. I go back to RISD a lot, Parsons sometimes. They come to my office, the schools, for lectures, and stories, and just kind of sharing experiences. That’s another thing that I really never had. RISD is an amazing school, but we did one trip to New York where we visited a couple of offices of people I couldn’t relate to. I think that connection between people who are in it, figuring it out in New York, and students who will be doing that in the next couple of years, that’s super interesting. It’s really important for the students, because there are a lot of realities that school will not tell you about.
Q&A by Adam Wray, Curator of FashionREDEF. You can follow Adam on REDEF and Twitter (@FashionREDEF, @Terminal_avenue), or reach him at adam.wray@redefgroup.com